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MARCO LEE 马克·李

2015-1-28 15:16| 发布者: 墙报| 查看: 2770| 评论: 0|来自: 艺术时代

本文发表在《艺术时代》杂志第39期

MARCO LEE 马克·李

Marc Lee *1969* Switzerland creates network-oriented interactive projects since 1999.

Experimenting with information and communication technologies, his projects locate and critically discuss economic, political, cultural and creative "issue-clusters" that are essential for communication processes in digital networks.

Marc Lee has exhibited in major new media art exhibitions including: ZKM Karlsruhe, New Museum New York, Trans-mediale Berlin, Ars Electronica Linz, Contemporary Art Biennale Sevilla, Viper and Shift Basel, Read_Me Festival Moskau, CeC Dehli, ICC Tokyo, Media Art Biennale and MMCA Seoul

马克·李1969年出生于瑞士,自1999年以来工作在网络核心的互动项目,对信息和沟通技术进行多方位的实验,通常这些项目都是经济、政治、文化和创造性基于数字网络沟通的碎片化话题。

马克·李的作品广泛展出于:德国卡尔斯鲁厄媒体艺术中心,美国纽约新美术馆,德国柏林转译媒体艺术节,奥地利林茨电子艺术节,韩国的媒体艺术城市和日本的ICC媒体艺术机构等。

1. what do you think about internet art?

Internet art or net art cov-ers artistic practices which uses the Internet as its me-dium. Mainly web-based projects that are primarily experienced via a browser and not focused on a par-ticular location such as a museum or gallery. In order to see an original painting or installation, we have to travel to the specific location. Different than Internet art, which we experience the original work in a browser at home for example. That’s the great advantage. It's possible to exhibit and share artistic projects globally, location independent, as they are, by just sending the link of the project.

1.1 do you think that brow-ser and tool are shaping our behavior as well? as human design the tool and the tool some how control human.

Yes indeed, especially if we use them often. Let’s think about our 24-hour availabi-lity. So far we can avoid that in most cases. Probably in the future it will be difficult. As a simple example, in most Swiss train stations we must buy train tickets through a computer. About ten years ago the ticket machines substituted most ticket sellers. Therefore, buying a ticket, we must communicate with machines instead of with people.

2. your work is very much on the situation of sharing infor-mation and construction of art by other people, how do you see you self as an artist, and what’s the art fact in your work?

I often ask myself, are jour-nalists still necessary in the age of the Internet? The usual media technologies, which have journalists as gatekeepers, who decide what is or is not published, which is maybe not conformed anymore. With my work I attempt to bring another view to the mass media, a view which is not driven by economic reasons and money. A critical view to reflect the information society. A view to make people aware, of how easy it is to manipulate the "truth" for example.

2.1 the gatekeeper issue was a core issue after the 2nd world war, which keep people safe from an evil power, finally it turned into the evil power, we still have this kind of gatekeeper like the firewall and role in the society as well…to reveal this is something that people do not always give attention to, but people like to participate in events, what you see the difference online and offline?

Different than in face to face communication, online conver-sation is generally accumulated and archived by governments, corporations, and research institutes and then transformed into everlasting stories as well. Even though it remains to be seen what long-term implications and consequences this collecting and archiving may have, it is worth thinking about it already now.

In my latest online project Pic-me I’m addressing that. Pic-me.com shows on google earth, the positions where a user sends their post to Instagram. The user’s trail can also be traced and the addresses are shown and localized on the map. Many users are unaware of features such as geotagg-ing being activated by default on social media platforms. Much additional personal information is therefore reveal-ed unintentionally.

3. your work dogmeat.org has a funny aspect on human beha- viour and the culture differen-ce? can you explain more about it and what happened during the project?

The Fifa (International Foot-ball Federation) claimed the Korean government banned eating dog meat during the Football World Cup 2002 in Korea. Eating dogmeat is an old tradition in Korea and it was one a century ago in Europa as well. Within the dogmeat.org project we went offensive and opened fictitious facilities in front of the football stadiums to let people taste dogmeat. We made poster-and press campai-gns and opened a dogmeat butcher branch in Zurich, which is also the headquarters of Fifa. Within that, the press published stories about it and we were able to reach large audiences, who tested user reactions, addressed this postcolonial act of Fifa and maybe reduced prejudice.

3.1 what you see as humanity, people questioning on eat-ing dog meat because of the relation issue with dogs or something else, it’s getting stranger that people protect dogs but not other human beings, do you see this super-ficial behavior related to things people cannot achieve or just because people like dogs better than people? that also reflects on the issue of culture violence, which normally happens to the non-develop areas or the powerless countries, primitive or cannibalism is some how easily related with how we treat animals and others, do you see a quality in the other culture, what is meaning of tradition?

In general, humans protect humans more than animals. But if people are manipulated or controlled by governments, companies, adds and so on, it can turn. Most of the time it’s an economically driven process which leads to evil actions in many countries and cultures. As I mentioned, eating dog meat was a tradition in Europe and now it’s cruel. In this shift we can see that traditions are changing, like everything around us. We should not blind- ly follow our tradition and we should be very careful if we transfer them to different cultures.

4. block/classified information is in the name of children, national security and other reasons, what you see about the phenomenon in nowadays? Will all of humanity and beneficial attention kill the real meaning of the internet?

There is a saying that there is a shift from the Internet into countless Intranets. Personally I cannot feel that so far, but I guess it's true. This is very sad. The Internet with the open and interconnected structure brought so many social benefits like the open source initiative, free software movements and knowledge based websites like Wikipedia for example.

4.1 what do people get from the Internet, do people madethe babble for our time? as I understand, the internet is very much requires sharing and co-constructing by people, censorship is one major thing that because of people still have nostalgic way of dealing with the old time behavior and a way of using media, normally control related to the power source of the old system, when people are willing to give the power or people are not aware of the power, that power shall be kidnaped and controlled by the system, naturally we do not have better system, and people are still not ready, what do you think?

I think people always find possibilities to elude perfect control and censorship for two reasons: nobody likes to be controlled and censored. 

Secondly, people are very crea-tive. But this is much more difficult in the Internet age. It’s important that people are aware of these subjects, aware of what’s going on. If we know things are censored, censorship does not work anymore, and there will be ways to elude censorship.

5. What is the form of your art? part of the CITY project you have shown in ZKM, do you consider your work have to have a sculptural or installation view and why?

In many projects I'm using user-genera-ted content as a base. In traditional photogra-phy- and video art, it's an artist group or single artist who de-cides, what will be shown. Using user generated-content, people all over the world receive a voice and share their thoughts and stories. In that way we are able to reflect our life, hopes, wishes and espe-cially the culture of the young-er generation much better. I believe this can have a wider and substantial meaning then traditional art.

In addition to the user gene-rated content, some of my pro- jects have a sculptural an in-stallation view. Within that we can involve more senses like touch or smell and face to face communication. This is not possible in pure Internet art. Combining these two, it’s possible to make synesthetic experiences.

5.1 your work seldom involve handy or the upcoming pad or palm culture, do you think it because of the possibility of the tool is not ready yet, or because you still think the computer based environment shall be the core of your work?

In the beginning I was not a fan of handy apps, because usually we had to pay for services on the mobile devices which were free on the internet. But this changed a lot in the recent years. Most services which are on the Internet can now be used within the mobile browser. Using the internet, we always get the newest version automatically. Using Apps we have to constantly update it, to get the newest version.

Actually at the moment, I’m working together with the KIT | Institute for Technology Karl-sruhe, we transferring the existing project “10'000 moving cities”
http://youtu.be/KCoC5uAByH8 into a telepresence mobile application. It will be possible to experience this work interac-tive in 3D on a mobile device using a Durovis 3D glass. The aim is to walk virtually around the installation in 3D, having the possibility to choose a new city and seeing and hearing in real time content from that chosen city. This project is very exciting and the mobile devices are of great help.

E-Mail interview for a Chinese magazine Art Times:

Marc Lee

1.你怎么看待网络艺术?

网络艺术囊括了使用网络作为媒介的艺术实践形式。主要的网络艺术形态是用浏览器进行体验的,而非聚焦于一个特定的发生地点,比如博物馆或者画廊。为了看到一幅画或者一个装置的原作,我们必须到一个特定的地点去,在网络艺术的概念范畴中,情况却不是这样:我们对“原作”的体验就发生在浏览器上,它的地点可能就在你的家中。这是网络艺术非常大的优势。在网络艺术的语境下,展览和分享艺术创作可以是独立于地点之外的,通过发送项目链接便可展遍全球。

1.1你认为浏览器作为一个工具,是否也在塑造我们的行为?就像人发明工具,工具也反而控制人一样?

的情况发生,在未来或许就难了。举个简单的例子,在绝大多数的瑞士车站,我们只能通过机器购买火车票。十年以前,现在这些机器所提供的功能是由售票人完成的。因此,现在为了买一张票,我们必须跟机器沟通,而非跟人沟通。

2.你的创作很大程度是关于他者的信息分享和艺术建构的,作为一个艺术家,你如何定位自己?你的作品又有怎样的艺术影响?

我时常问自己,在网络的时代,记者这个职业是否还有必要存在?那种常见的媒体技术,比如说记者作为信息的把关人,媒体人决定什么样的信息被发表等等,已经不再符合当下的现实。我的创作是试图带来另外一种看待大众媒体的视角,一种不被经济因素、不被金钱驱动的视角,一种用批判的眼光看待信息社会的视角。举个例子,这个视角意在让人们意识到今日环境下,操控“真实”是如此轻易。

确乎如此,尤其是当我们频繁使用这些工具时。让我们想想每天24小时的可用性。目前我们或许还能避免被工具控制2.1在二战后,“把关人”的议题是传媒领域非常关键的议题,这个概念的初衷是让人们远离邪恶权力,后来它又自己成为了邪恶权力,我们当下生活的社会,依然有防火墙这样的“把关人”存在...对这一现实的揭示,能让人们看到平时不注意的事物,与此同时,人们又非常热爱参加各种各样的活动,你认为在线和离线的参与之间有什么区别?

不同于面对面的交流,在线的对话一般会通过政府、企业和研究组织进行收集和存档,并转化为持续性的故事。虽然这些收集和存档行为的隐含结果或许要未来才会揭示,但是现在开始来思考这些会是值得的。

在最近的在线项目《图-我》(Pic-me)中,我便探究了这个话题。Pic-me.com这个网站在谷歌地球上显示了Instagram用户发送图片的地理位置。用户的路径可以被追踪到,而具体的地点也在地图上被标记出来了。很多用户在使用社交网站时,往往没有意识到地理定位时默认开启的。因此,很多个人信息也在不经意间被暴露了。

3.你的项目,dogmeat.org《狗肉联盟》揭示了人类行为一个好玩的方面,这里也涉及到文化差异?你是否可以向我们介绍一下这个项目,以及项目中出现的故事?

在2002年的日韩世界杯举行前,FIFA(国际足球联合会)发出正式的声明,要求韩国政府禁止在世界杯期间食用狗肉 。在韩国,食用狗肉是一项久远的传统,事实上,一个世纪以前的欧洲也是有食用狗肉情况的。在dogmeat.org《狗肉联盟》项目中,我们(译者注:指Marc Lee和合作者,韩国艺术家金素奇kim sukhee)一起开启了挑战这一声明的行动,我们做了一些假的狗肉装置,在足球场馆前邀请人品尝。我们做了一系列海报和媒体宣传,甚至在苏黎世——也就是国际足联总部所在地——“开设”了一家狗肉公司(事实上并不存在)。媒体迅速报道了这一故事,我们也获得了大量的观众,他们的反应检验了我们关于这个事件的一些观念:国际足联的这一行为是带有后殖民主义倾向的。这一项目也或多或少减少了一些文化偏见。

你如何看待这个项目折射的人性?人们会质疑食用狗肉,因为人与狗之间的关系或者其他的原因。但是这有时也变得奇怪,有些人们会去保护狗,对保护人却显得淡漠。你怎么看待这样的行为?是因为它关乎人类无法实现的一些东西,还是3.1 因为人单纯的爱狗多过爱人?这个项目也折射了一些关于文化暴力的问题,这些问题往往发生在相对欠发达的国家和地区,来自于关联原始的、甚至食肉的行为的、我们对待动物和其他个体的态度,你在其他的文化中是否看到一种品质?传统的意义究竟是什么?

一般来说,人对同类的保护要多于对动物的保护。然而,如果人们被政府、企业、宣传广告等控制和操纵,结果可能会不一样。在很多国家和文化中,邪恶行为的产生背后经常是经济利益的驱动。就像我提到的,食用狗肉本身在欧洲是一项传统,而现在却被认为是残暴的。在这些变迁中,我们可以看到传统在发生改变,就像我们周遭的事物一样。我认为我们不能盲目地遵循传统,然而,同样地,我也认为我们在转移到其他的文化时,需要谨慎。

4.加密信息的产生是因为保护儿童、国家安全等各种原因,你如何看待今天信息加密的现象?人类对信息加密的这种有益关注是否反而会扼杀了网络的真正意义?
有人预测,未来的互联网会变为无穷多的局域网。我个人目前还没有感觉到,但我猜想它终将发生,这将令人非常难过。这个开放的、拥有内部链接结构的互联网带来了如此之多的社会福利,比如说开源的倡议、免费软件运动,和类似维基百科这样基于知识的网站。

4.1人们从网络中可以得到什么?人们是否在网络上创造出这个时代的喧嚣嘈杂?我个人的理解,网络存在的根基是分享和参与者的共同构造,审查制度依然是一个重要组成,或许因为人们仍然怀有对旧时代媒体行为习惯的眷恋。通常,这些控制来源于旧系统的权力核心,当人们愿意出让属于他们自己的权力,或者完全没意识到自己的权力时,这些权力便会被系统所绑架,自然而然地,我们也不会拥有一个更好的系统。我想或许现在的人们还没有做好准备,你认为呢?

我认为人们总是在想方设法逃避所谓“完美”的控制和审查,原因有二:首先,没有人会喜欢被控制和审查;其次,人们是有创造力的。当然,在网络时代这也变得更为困难,所以人们要意识到这些议题的存在,意识到这个世界在发生着什么,这是非常重要的。一旦我们知道哪些信息在被审查,审查制度便会不复运转,因为人们会想出很多方法来躲过审查。

5.你的艺术形式是什么?比如说,你的CITY《城市》项目的一部分在卡尔斯鲁厄艺术与媒体科技中心(ZKM)展出,你是否认为你的作品带有雕塑或者装置的性质?为什么?

在很多作品中,我的创作基础是用户产生的内容。在传统的摄影和录像艺术中,是由一个或一群艺术家决定展出的内容。然而,当内容由用户产生时,世界各地的人都可以获得一种声音,来分享他们的想法和故事。通过这种方式,我们可以更好地反思自己的生活、希望、愿景、尤其是未来一代的文化。我认为,这样的创作方式相比传统艺术而言,会有更为广泛和重要的意义。

在用户产生内容的前提下,我的有些作品是具有雕塑或装置的外观。在其中,我们可以囊括更多包括触觉、嗅觉和面对面沟通的感官体验。这对于纯粹的网络艺术来说是不可能的。因此,二者的结合使得创造出更为联觉的感官体验成为可能。

5.1你的作品很少涉及正在兴起的“平板文化”或者说“掌上文化”,这是因为还没有到用这个工具进行创作时候?还是因为你仍认为创作核心应当是基于电脑的环境?

最初的时候,我并不是很喜欢掌上应用,原因很多在网络上免费的服务,到了移动终端我们就得付费。然而最近的几年我的观念改变了很多,现在很多网络上的服务也可以通过手机的浏览器获取。当然,在网络上,我们可以自动获取最新版本。在手机应用方面,我们依然需要通过经常性的手动更新来获得最新的版本。

事实上,我现在在和卡尔斯鲁厄理工学院(Institute for Technology Karlsruhe)合作一个项目,我们把已有的《10,000个移动城市》(10'000 Moving Cities)项目转换成一个基于遥操作的手机应用。这个应用使得人们可以在手机终端,配合Durovis 3D眼镜(译者注:由科技公司Shoogee开发的手机3D眼镜)来在3D环境下互动地体验这个作品,其目的是让人们能在3D环境下虚拟地行走于装置之间,允许用户选择不同城市,并实时听到和看见所选城市的内容。这个项目非常令人激动,而手机设备和应用也确实帮了大忙。

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